Overcome Fear - How Josh Followed His Passions (and rode a motorcycle through India)Sep 01, 2021
In today's expert interview, I speak with Josh Koerpel about overcoming fear, following his true passions in life, and going on adventures all around the world.
Josh is the creator of Firebuilders, an intelligent messaging system that holds clients accountable for their coaches. Josh is a creative, positive, and forward thinking man that has been able to follow his heart and live a life that’s in alignment with his passions.
In today’s video, Josh shares with us how he:
- Left a high paying job to instead follow his passions and build something he loved.
- Overcome fear and self doubt that would have stopped him from living out his dreams.
- Rode a motorcycle through India and overcame huge obstacles along the way.
- Sailed through various countries around the world and the lessons he’s learned.
- Has cultivated a strong mental game and the advice he shares with other men.
This is a phenomenal interview with Josh. You will walk away from this interview with a newfound sense of optimism and inspiration that will force you to start planning and living out your dreams and goals.
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All right, Mike Morelli, here with Josh koerpel. From peak well, Mike Morelli here from Peak prosper and with Josh korbel hears from fire builders. He's a software developer. He's a writer. He's a world traveler, photographer. Josh, I couldn't be more stoked to have you on here today, man, your story is something that, you know I've admired from afar. The first time we connected was on a mastermind. And it's been like over a year since that, so dude, welcome and stoked to do this interview with you, man. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it. And I'm stoked to be here as well. Hard to believe how fast that year has gone. until this point. Yeah, totally. And so, you know, just for anyone, you know, watching this, and, you know, wondering a little bit about why we got Josh on here today. And, you know, Josh is someone that, you know, I'm gonna obviously let you tell your own story, man. But I mean, when we first connected, I checked out your Facebook profile. And I was like, this guy's going on adventures. Like he's sailing around the world. He wrote a motorcycle through India, it looked like you had done some traveling through south southeast Asia. And a lot of guys that are attracted to our messenger p prosper, they want to live that adventurous lifestyle, right? They they value experiences over material things. And your journey is something that's unique, right, and you've got so much wisdom to really share with people and so really just wanted to get you on here today and and kind of uncover your story. Yeah, man, well, I'm, of course happy to share and I've got, yeah, I've learned a finger to like, on all of these, all of these trips and, and stuff. Certainly, the trip through India was a massive one. And then, you know, like, I guess, just to kind of give people context. I mean, I, I went to college in the middle of nowhere, Ohio, and got a Spanish degree, didn't know what I wanted to do, ended up volunteering on a ship out of Erie, Pennsylvania. And that, that, like kicked off my entire tall ship career. And I spent years on different ships, all over the world sailing. And you, you know, you do that for a while and you get enough sea time to get your captain's license. And then from there, you can actually drive these things legally and take paying passengers and stuff on board. And then And then from there, you know, you kind of get, you kind of hit a plateau. And then I launched myself into going back to school, I went to bu got a master's in mechanical engineering, worked for a company called McLaren. And we were like the navy seals, essentially, of the engineering world when it came to entertainment related stuff. So everything that like Cirque du Soleil uses everything that Disney and Universal Studios, we did a ton of stuff for Vegas, just about every major rock show in existence, like, like, they used us to essentially take their crazy, awesome, like, powerful, but unknown ideas on how they were going to achieve it. And then we like sat down and figured out the physics to make that stuff happen. So it was a lot of problem solving very cerebral, I spent my days in spreadsheets, then you get to a point where you're just like, dude, there, there's, I can't do this forever. I mean, you look around the office, and they're just people wandering around like zombies. They've been there forever. And you say to yourself, do I really want to become that type of person? No, the answer was no. And so I taught myself how to develop mobile apps, and started to go down that path developed a whole bunch of them realize they didn't know jack about marketing, that launched me into figuring out the whole the marketing and sales related stuff. And then I used all of these pieces of my past to start to solve problems that I saw in the marketing world, which led me to create software and led me to have a little bit more, you know, freedom to work and to work from just about anywhere. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. Alright, let's wrap it up now, like so. So with this because there's two things I want to touch on here first, the first thing is that you went to college in the middle of nowhere, Ohio, and through that experience, you wound up you know, going on these different ships and kind of going on these sounds like micro adventures and learning a lot. I'm curious what made you want to go back into school? I mean, you It sounds like you had this experience out of out of the gate. You're on the ships, you're like well, this is blowing my mind. But then you go back into a master's degree what what was the what was happening at that point? unrealized potential. Okay. That was the that was the big thing for me is that I I knew engineering in the math and physics side of things was something that I was always pretty, like naturally good at. I did that ever since I was a kid is a funny, I was just telling somebody this the other day, like, when, when I was a kid, I used to go to these big department stores which are like, now few and far between, but things like like Ames and and JC Penney and stuff like that, I would go there with my mom, and she would be shopping. And I'm like, you know, this six, seven year old kid wandering around the floor of the place. And I found I would find all of these bits and pieces of like hangers and rubber bands and all kinds of like weird stuff. And I used to create, like, like things with them, I would make like machines and things. And I totally forgot about that whole thing until I went back recently, and saw some stuff in the like, in my mom's in my mom's things, and it all made sense. So I kind of had that natural interest in math and physics, but I never pursued it. So after I did the tall ship stuff, and I kind of got you come to the realization that you're either going to the only way up is to like go start to drive like cruise ships and, and, and really big stuff, or go the private route. And it wasn't for me, I like weighed those pros and cons really heavily. And I just said look like I can do this. I searched around, I found a very special program at Boston University. And just devoted 100% of my attention to it moved to Boston, of course, and just spent the next like three and a half years busting my ass to get a a master's and and it was it was a welcome change, you know, the tall ship stuff. very physical, not so much mental. Like you have to be smart. Of course, you have to be intelligent, you have to be able to make split second decisions on the water and, and and for the benefit of passengers that are onboard and keeping them safe. But it wasn't like you weren't like figuring out things that have never been done before. And that's that's kind of what I wanted. So. So yeah, so then I figured, well, the way to do it is to prove myself go back to school, get a Master's, go through the motions and see what happens. And so that's, that's why I made the decision to do it. And then you wind up going into this this job, you know, it's you're essentially a navy seal. And yeah, because everybody else, I mean, I have a lot of friends that went through the same program. And they all came from different weirdly eclectic backgrounds and stuff. The majority of them went and got the jobs that like we're at the job fair. So GE rotating parts division or, or material science related stuff or biomimicry things with, with the automotive industry, you know, the things like that, and I'm like, screw that man I, I want, I want to use both my creative brain and my analytical brain and do that both to the best of my ability. So I searched hardcore, to find an entertainment related job. I didn't even know that existed until well into my search and as soon as I found it, I was like, I was like this is it now what do I have to do to go and get this job because it was there's only like two companies in the entire country that do that. And it's extremely competitive to get in and I knew that from the start so so Dude, I went to great lengths just to get an internship at this place, you know, I'm talking like, I tracked down the president of the company and met him like essentially stopped him but then met him at a place where he was speaking and made sure that I was like the first person that he talked to right at the end of his speech and and then got a number and then like an end and that and then a relentless like six month pursuit just to get the internship. But it's, it's a metaphor for like, you kind of got to figure out what you want and go after it with a fervor, you know? Yeah, that you just read my mind because that's exactly kind of what I wanted to like just just have a quick note on here and it's like, I think so often in life when we when we want something we want something really bad and it's doesn't matter what it is right? We it's a could be thriving or romantic relationship. It could be you know, lifestyle, freedom, it could be financial stability, whatever it is meaningful work scaling your business. We like hope and pray, or we say gal, I want that. But we don't actually go after it with intense desire, right? And we'll just fall into the trap of doing what everyone else is doing. Like if you fell into the trap, Josh, if I'm just gonna send out a resume and you know, maybe cut fall, send a couple follow up emails, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation, right? Yeah, 100% I, I was actually, I adopted this mantra, like, way back in the day when I started, because I did make a resume and I had to write cover letters and all of that stuff. But I adopted this mantra, that was, that was, I was going to, I was going to keep sending them emails, however many it needed to be like, once a week, twice a week, whatever, I was going to keep doing it. Until one of two things happened. Either they just told me to stop. Right? Or I got the job. And, and a lot I found out like, a lot of people don't do that. They, they say no for the company. So you know, you send an email, and you're like, Hey, I'm really interested in working here. You never hear anything back. And then you say, then you come to the worst case, conclusion, oh, they must not like me, they must not want to hire me. I'm gonna move on to the next thing, when in reality, most of the time, that's not true at all. It's just that they're busy as hell. So by the way, can I swear on this thing? Of course. Yeah. Okay. I just want to make sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. So. So that's the thing is that you, you just have to you have to be persistent. Because just like you said, I mean, people want a lot of things. They want a lifestyle where they can travel around and work. Most people want the idea of that. They only find out through the process, that the realities and the things that you kind of have to give up in order to achieve that. They're not willing to make those sacrifices. So it's better to like find that out early. Yeah. That's the key. And the key. And the way to do that is just to, just to, just to pursue stuff, just go and do it. Yeah. I love it. I love it, man. It's like, any transformation that you want to take in your life takes legitimate work. And it's going to require you to do new actions, like new. So people, they set some goal or whatever it is, they have some desire. And then the first sign of obstacle, they hit that a roadblock, right? They send out the email, they didn't hear back, and then they just go into their own self defeating limiting belief or that says, Oh, you know, they must not, you know, they must not want me, they must think I'm annoying. And that's just insecurity, right? I mean, those are just limiting beliefs. You have to be able to see through your own bullshit sometimes and just keep going and really find out the truth. Yeah, 100%, it's a and it's it really comes to, I personally think it comes down to what you end up telling yourself, like how you can reframe things in a way that, that that works for you, because everybody's different. I can tell you like what happened with me was really early on with all of the, with all of the dude, I was like, 29 years old, going back to school sitting, sitting in some undergraduate classes with like, 19 year old kids. And, and it's intimidating because I hadn't been back in the classroom for, like, 10 years. The first test, particularly like physics, a lot of like calculus stuff, those first tests, you're just scared shitless. You know, you're just like, you're like, what am I doing? But then I came up with this, I came up with this thought, I said, like, I need to reframe this man, because this isn't working. I can't live in fear of these tests every single time. So instead, I started telling myself, I started telling myself, like, Josh, do you know that you can do this you want 100% know that you're capable of crushing this? They, they as in Boston University, they only give you three or four opportunities to prove you know what the fuck you're doing right throughout the school year. So take advantage of those, wait, look forward to those opportunities, because those are the times where it will you will do well, and it will be undisputed that you know what you're talking about, like, that's how you'll differentiate yourself. And as soon as I started saying that, all the fear of the tests went away. And I started almost looking forward to the challenge, looking forward to the journey. And then, and then of course, you do well, because you're because you're not letting all that stress, you know, stop you from from performing at your best. You're just like you're like looking forward to it. Because you know, because you know what you're worth and you know, that there's going to be only a few chances to prove it without a shadow of a doubt. That's That's all I did. Yeah, no, I love it and essentially just changed your focus, right? Like we like we like manifest Our own fear, we feel fear and we'd like to focus on it. Why is this happening? It must be true. And we like, essentially look at our external environment for proof of that we get to, you know, get a bad grade, oh my god, I can see everything's going wrong. And we just manifest these things. But the same thing is that you can go in the other direction like you did. And, and Josh, one thing I would love to segue into here is, you know, so you touched on this earlier, so you graduated, you get this job. And then you look at this, I'm really excited to kind of go into this transition of now more into like your entrepreneurial adventures lifestyle, but you're working this job, you're looking around the office, and you're saying, hold on a second, you know, is that when that unrealized potential thing kind of came in, and you're saying, like, hold on a second, like, kind of yet it was. It was. Because we were doing some really cool stuff, don't get me wrong, really cool projects, interesting stuff that no one will ever give us credit for. Because we were the behind the scenes, people who made it happen. But the end of the day, like, nobody celebrates, nobody celebrates them, like it's the production company, or they just, you know, they just look at Justin Timberlake. And they're like, oh, man, that's super cool. Like, they get all the credit. And, again, it was, I was so grateful to have the job. I loved it. I loved the work. But but then you start to you start to realize day after day, and ask yourself, How long can I take this because I'm basically I'm working really hard. We're talking like 1011 hour days, where the mental load. To put it in perspective, the mental load is like basically taking the math as it is every single day. I mean, that's, that's essentially what it was. And, and to top it all off the stress, because there's no back of the book answer that tells you whether or not something's right, or something's not right. You have to justify it on your own. So it's incredibly cerebral, very logical. And you say to yourself, man, I'm working in a position where I'm really not. I'm really not, I don't feel like I'm contributing 100% to this. There's some decisions being made that I just don't necessarily agree with, how long can I take this? I mean, my Am I right? To accept this reality and get paid like clockwork, every single month not have to worry about that. But part of me inside dies, because I know that I'm not, I'm not fulfilled the way that I hope that I could be. And at the end of the day, I'll probably end up like these guys in the office, these older guys in the office. So I was doing this, I rode the motorcycle across the hills of Pennsylvania. And in the middle of that trip, I came to this realization and said, I, you know, there's no other way around it, I have to take control of my own future. How am I going to do that. And at the time, I was I was just, I was like, curious about what the software development was, and the app related stuff was, and I had done a bunch of programming at BU. And I taught this programming language called MATLAB for a number of years. So I understood the concepts. But I'm like, maybe that's the ticket. Maybe that's the freedom that I'm looking for. And so that was the catalyst for the entrepreneurial journey. Breaking Away and doing that, and don't get me wrong. It's not like I just quit the engineering job and went headstrong into into app development. No, no, I, I worked. I worked for McLaren for three years. But then, pretty much two and a half of those years. It was like working two, completely separate nine to five jobs, I would wake up at 5am, I would do like hours of app work, I would go to work, I would come back and like six. And then I would do another couple of hours of app related stuff. So this was this was this was over the course of like two years. Oh my god years. How did you manage the work, like stress and workload at that time and so much, so much? Technology time, right? Like, how are you managing that? I was excited to do the app stuff. Okay. Like it really, it really, I was inspired to do it. I found that there were aspects of creating software that I didn't realize, I would love so much. The graphic design the UI, and the UX, like the user experience, being able to solve an actual problem. And then once you do your first step, so once you create your first thing, when you tell people that you're creating an app, everybody's gonna be like, oh, cool, man, but they're just not gonna get it. Yeah. And then you actually have something on your phone that you have Created and you give it to other people and they start to use it and they get it. It's like a huge milestone. And, and inside, you're just like holy crap, like, this is a possibility people are using my stuff, and they're actually liking it. So then that, that pours a little bit of fuel on the fire. And that helps you through all of the really, really long nights long days. Another massive milestone is when somebody buys it for the first time. So the first time somebody actually bought the the app, I was like, over the moon excited and, and you just say to yourself, man, like this could work like this, this really, this is the thing. So you just hit these little, these little markers along the way that that speed you up. It's like in Mario Kart where you go over that one spot word like speed you up? Yeah, that's there's a bunch of those along the way, and you just have to just have to get far enough to find them. You know, it's interesting how you talk about the, the, the different work that you were doing at the same time, the different parts of the brain that each of them were using. So you know, for people who are listening, right now, there's two parts of the brain, the logical and analytical part of the brain. And then the intuitive side, right. And the intuitive side is when we're tapping into kind of that sense of, you know, soul purpose, what's happening on the inside that inner desire that, that thing inside of you that you can't really describe, but it feels innate, right. The logical analytical part is like, you know, it's like the thinking part of the brain is the mind part of the brain. And so it's like that a to b type of thinking black and white, were intuitive is more like a to infinity, right? And so you talk about when you were working at the nine to five job, or maybe it was a little bit longer than nine to five, but you were saying I was very logical, but then all sudden, you started going up to going into the intuitive part of the brain with the app developing. And that came from riding your motorcycle through the hills of Pennsylvania, where you have this like gut inspiration. That's like your intuition saying, Hey, man, you know, you're not really tapping into your, to your higher sense of self here. And then you started doing that work. You started, you followed your nose, right, you followed your intuition. And here we are now. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Like, and and to be honest, this Okay, so this was back in 2013. Roughly, is that true? 2012 2013? Yeah, around that. And I can tell you that, that I wasn't on Facebook, I wasn't looking up all of these entrepreneurial groups, and part of it and trying to try to contribute to the conversation. And to be honest, I'm really glad that I wasn't in retrospect, because because when you're first starting out with stuff like that, especially if it's like a major switch, and you you have all this like the irons hot like you have all this drive at the very beginning. The internet is so full of information, both good and bad, that the more that you read, and the more that you try and like intellectually pursue it, instead of just going out and doing it on your own. The more disheartened you can become. And it makes me wonder whether or not had I read all of this stuff about apps and how hard it was and how saturated is the marketing and sales and stuff. I wonder had I pursued it? If I would have if I would have done it. So So yeah, whenever you're starting something new, and you you feel that, that intuitive poll, and you follow your nose, so to speak. You just have to go and do it. And you you have to expect that you're going to run into some roadblocks, but don't try and out think them. Right? Don't that like consumption of information sometimes isn't the best thing. You just got to go out and experience it and the work will teach you the work. Yep. Oh, wow. There we could we could do the rest of the podcasts on exactly what you just said. But the truth is, is that you have to stop thinking so much. Right? If we when we think we think you're not. It's like our it's like Josh, when people are dealing with these like obsessive thoughts that they're trying to get out of these negative thoughts they've experienced for a long time, their past, you cannot out think your thinking mind. And you can only think as great as you've only been thinking, right? You have to go and tap into your intuition and go do something different and be willing to embrace that discomfort. I think a lot of the times people get trapped in like, you know, the stuck in my head. We get stuck in our head because we keep trying to out think our problems and our logical analytical mind as a byproduct of evolutionary progress will always give you another answer. It will always out thank you and you just you can't. I would say that you can't achieve your dreams and goals by sitting there and thinking all the time right? It's like you have to go listen to this thing. But the problem now this is what my mentor Garrett Gunderson said to me on the phone a couple weeks ago. He goes, you have to follow your intuition. He goes, but the crux of that is that it takes courage. Right? I mean, it takes courage to to go through your intuition, because there's going to be roadblocks, like you said, there's always going to be roadblocks, because Welcome to life. Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, the end and like the, you know, the knowledge. I mean, there's something to be said about sitting and contemplating the best course of action, I realized that there, there certainly is a time and a place for that. Absolutely. But if you if you're, if you're just living in your head, the idea of a versus the idea of B, both of them have positives and negatives. And it's impossible for you to really weigh them against one another. Because you're because they're not they're not tangible yet. And, and so, so I agree, like, like, Listen to your intuition, contemplate something, but then, but then act upon it. Like, that's really that's that action that creates the clarity that you're looking for, and, you know, will ultimately, kind of determine whether or not you should just keep doing it, or maybe pivot and go go some other direction, you know, yeah. And, you know, the other kind of a last word here is because I know that some of the guys that are even in our transformation program are going to sit here right now and say, Mike, what are you talking about you, you know, you tell me to get quiet and think. But there's the difference of what Josh and I are talking about is there's a huge difference between sitting quietly and like, and just thinking, right? Very powerful practice, you should do it every day. What we're talking about right now is that when you're trying to make a different life direction, when you're trying to go for a dream and goal, right, and it makes you kind of feel stressed out, right, and you kind of feel anxious, that's when you don't start going down the rabbit hole of thinking that's like the absolute worst time to do it. Because you're essentially going into fight or flight, right. And you're, you're producing that stress, you can't think clearly and what your brain is going to give you the answers to make you say stay safe and comfortable. Right. So I think just wanted to quickly highlight the differences between like, really what we're, we're talking about right now, is that Yeah, you know, is that spot on? Josh? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it makes sense. It's, uh, you know, and it's, it's a question of, too, like, it's a compound effect, in my, in my mind, where her you, you know, say, I don't know, say that, say that. There's somebody listening that wants to leave their nine to five and go pursue something a little bit more flexible, like some type of freelance or remote worker, or something like that, they can go and travel around, okay, so. So it's, it's, it's like, when you I personally subscribe to the idea. And I do this to myself all the time. That that, I'd like to envision when I envision what the end goal is, and say the end goal is to become a freelance writer, and travel around to all these different high end places and write about it, let's just say, for example, that that's the goal. Well, in your mind, you have this idea of what that looks like. And, and once you form that, I think that we all have a tendency to say not be satisfied until that happens. And most of the time, that vision that you have, is full of moving parts, each of which that will take quite a bit of time to fall into place. And so what I do is, is I, I, I simplify everything and I say to myself, like, okay, I want to do the travel writing thing. Excellent. Like, how, what, how could I do this today's Thursday? So how could I do this? By Monday? How could I, like, have something done, and figure something out by Monday? Because that forces you to compromise your vision? and say, Well, maybe it doesn't have to be this grandiose thing. Maybe I can just reach out to a couple magazines right now. Or maybe, shit, maybe I can go and find somebody interesting around Mount my town that I think other people might find interesting. And go and see if I can sit down with an interview with them. You know, there's like all these different ways to do it. It's just that we, we have our great vision and then we say to ourselves, well, I'm not going to be satisfied unless this is achieved. And, and most of the time, that's just it's just ludicrous to continue to think that way you kind of have to adapt to the realities of the situation. Yeah. 100% 100% you know, at this point it I would love to just start to really Talk about some of your adventures. Just the background, to be honest with you, Josh, I didn't really know your background of getting to the point of the life that you're living now. And it's the reason why I want to harp on that is because so often in whatever it is, in this world today, we love to highlight people's successes, but we rarely understand the journey that it took to get there. And that's real life. Right? That's, that's real life, there is the journey from where you got to now. And it's like, yeah, you went back to college, you know, you're working in a job, you spent two and a half years, essentially working like 14 hours a day to make it happen. Right. And I love that context. Because no personal development and like be your best self is all about hacks, quick fixes. And we know that quick fixes don't work, right? They requires hard work, sacrifice, and long term compound interest. So, you know, one of the stories I'd love to kind of highlight is the motorcycle ride through India. Could you talk to us about that? Because I remember when dude, when we spoke on the phone, like a year ago, you were telling me that story and I was just like, I was I thought it was the coolest thing ever because had also been to India. Yeah, yeah, man, I'd be happy to I one of my favorite times of my entire life. And essentially, I flew into New Delhi found a guest house in a in a backpacking part of New Delhi called paharganj. And I started asking around as to where I could buy a motorcycle, found a guy named a bullet Wallah. So is his name, bullet Wallah. And, and he sold he sold me a 1986, single cylinder 350 cc, Royal Enfield bullet. And I then rode that thing. First south, that was like the test trip. And by the way, like, Yes, I had some Motorcycle Experience. Nothing, nothing prepares you for India, especially riding a motorcycle around because one, there are just inherent challenges with the bike and the way that they drive as far as everybody drives on the left instead of the right so you have to figure that out. Then the motorcycle itself is a British bike and because of that the controls were were swapped. So Oh wow. No clutch and brake ended up being on different sides, which took a while to get but just the first time that I knew that I had to pull out into New Delhi traffic that was probably one of the most scared I've ever been in my life because you it is just throwing yourself into absolute sheer chaos after a while, scribe that though, for our audience, because Josh when I was in Bangalore, and I had the bicycle, and I and it was the first day and I and I literally remember it, I have a video on my iPhone, I had literally almost had a full breakdown, panic attack. Like, I've never seen traffic like that in my life. Can you just give some context to the audience? Like, what's that? What is that like? Okay, so, so you have to be honestly, like, hyper aware of everything. And there is no for some, like, for some comparison, everybody here in the States, you just assume that other people are going to follow the rules. And you can't do that. In India. It is a free for all, it's almost like, you know, the lines on the road don't exist. If you if you want to cross the road, you have to just straight up, pull out in front of people. That's the only way to get them to stop. On the motorcycle itself. One of the most treacherous things is you know, you're going up these like mountain roads, right. And it's just wide enough for two cars, just barely. And a lot of a lot of really slow moving traffic like, like donkeys and camels and stuff with big cart loads of things. Will these these tourist buses need to get around to them? And and they will, they will just run you right off of the road. It is it is 100% might has right? And so you have absolutely no sway whatsoever on a motorcycle and there were plenty of times where a bus just coming head on to us wasn't gonna it wasn't gonna move out of the way it was like a game of chicken. And the only thing that you can do is just, it's just ride off of the road and into the dirt shoulder and stuff. Let the bus fly by you and then get back on your way that was like a common occurrence. You hear whenever if anybody looks up YouTube videos on New Delhi traffic I encourage you to do it. You're gonna hear it's nothing but horns. And it's not like everybody's just pissed off at one another horns You use that constantly because it is a declaration of presence. It's not like a booking cut me off, he like No way, you have to use your horn to let people know that you were there. I asked the rickshaw driver once. And he was telling me, he's like when people drive in India, they only pay attention to what is directly ahead of them and to 45 degrees on either side. That's their like cone of responsibility, they cannot hit anything in that cone, everything to the sides and the back view, like you don't care about and if everybody does that, it just, it works it like chaotically all just flows together. So and then I'll just wrap it up with this. The one of the best, and actually, I used this piece of advice. When I got down there. They said, Look, if you're on a motorcycle, you get into an accident, right? You don't stop and wait for the cops and change insurance, exchange insurance information and stuff you fucking get out of there. You just leave the scene, there's no there's no point in staying. If you stay, it will be worse for you, no matter whose fault it is, you are the person visiting the country you shouldn't be there to begin with, it will always be your fault. If it's a bad enough accident, where somebody is like really hurt, you give them money, and then you get the fuck out of there. So so that actually I ended up a rickshaw hit me and and we just we didn't even stop we just like we just kept on going there was no point whatsoever. Anyway, so that was that was just learning how to ride in New Delhi and rode down to the Taj Mahal first that was like the test ride, rode back oil pump failed on the bike. The bike seized so I couldn't go over like 20 miles an hour, I ended up riding for a full like 12 hours straight just to get back into the city then changed all that stuff out road all the way to Tibet. So about 3000 kilometers or so. All the way up into the Himalayas, through the back door of Tibet. That's what they called it, this little mountain road in the city and Parvati valleys, all the way to the border. And then back. But the back part we got there was like a freak snowstorm that happened in this little Buddhist monastery town and we got snowed in there were avalanches that killed the road on either side just happened to be in this little town called casa. And it didn't stop snowing for a couple of days. The banks, the snow banks were worth 20 feet high on either side of the road once they finally cleared it. And we're up high in the mountains at this point. I mean, you're deep. Yeah, yeah, I think causes like, maybe 13,000 feet or something like that. Which is the top of like a Colorado mountain essentially. Yeah, it was it was in it like in the middle of nowhere if, if people are listening to this, and they're interested in and looking to see where that is k z Ey, just type in casa, India and see where that is in the Himalayas. So that's where and we got stuck there. For like, just under two weeks. There was there was no telling whether or not we'd be able to get in or out. And they finally cleared the road. We were able to ride out. That was one of the most challenging rides of my life, because all of the snow melt water turned the road into essentially a giant like mud slide. And so there were I mean, yeah, it was just, it's some of the most challenging writing I've ever done, but got out of it. You just figured out along the way. I mean, it's very much like anything. Yeah. You go into it. And yeah, you see the realities of the situation. you adapt, you keep moving, you survive, you move on, and then you come back. And you have all these like crazy stories to tell people that you know, you survived. Josh, why did you want to do that trip? Because the reason why I asked that question is because when I went to India, I was there was something in my life at that point. That was like really saying, you know, there was I had a I had a real reason for wanting to do that. What was it for you? I mean, did you see something? Did you feel something? What was it that drew you to do that? It was right after I stopped with the tall ship captain stuff. And I knew that I just you just and I've been in Key West, I've been driving this boat for the better part of a year. Just wanted to change and I had read about the Royal Enfield Himalayan motorcycle stuff, years and years and years ago in a magazine and it just always stuck with me. And I said to myself, you know Do it like I have some money saved up. I'm just gonna go and do it like now's the time I'm, I'm 2728, something like that. I'm just gonna go and do this. So yeah, that was it. And I, you know, I did a little bit of research beforehand. But again, it was one of those things where I'm glad I didn't know what I know now. Cuz I probably would have second guessed everything had been like I should I really do this like holy shit like this is, this seems hard. And it was, but you have no choice but to persevere through that. And then you find out, you come out the other side of that hole, way more confident about your abilities, and ready for the next challenge. You know, what was the biggest thing that you learn from that trip? You came back home? And I mean, your sense of obviously, your confidence was probably through the roof, right? And you just did this amazing trip, and not many people will ever do. What do you what was like one of the biggest takeaways that you learned from that trip? I would say that your that as a human, your problem solving skills in the face of like true danger. I mean, that snowstorm that hit everybody unexpectedly, unofficially, like 70 people ended up dying in that all over northern India, because it was just, it was just not and, and you're just I guess the biggest takeaway is that you're way more capable than you give yourself credit for. You only find that out, when you're put into situations that take you that push you past your perceived limit. And that's it. So you know, you really do gain a better understanding of who you are, what you're capable of how you handle stress. What you focus on, like it, the Tall Ships taught me that too. But in India, for sure. I mean, when you're in the middle of nowhere, and you have to like, and your rear bearings have completely broken apart, and you have to rip the rear wheel off and change the tire and completely change out the bearings. Where you haven't seen a soul in six days. And there's no help whatsoever. Like, you start to you start to save yourself. You know, once you get it all fixed, and you're back on the road, there's no better feeling. You're like, you're like, Damn, man, I am self sufficient. They were truly living in that moment, you are the most a lot you're the most a human being could truly be in that moment. In my 100%, you're in a foreign country, you're putting a bag together a motorcycle on the road of India. And you're finally you fix it. And you get back on the road. And you go, dude, I just did that. Yeah, did that. Yeah. And then in this moment, right here, and then you come back, you come back to the States. And you say to yourself, I want to start a business. And that's not, you know, By comparison, it's not life or death. Like, you're gonna be fine. Like, just go do it. You know, I like that's. So that's the thing that has always worked for me, I put myself in really extreme situations. And I do that one, because I just kind of like it, it makes me feel alive, but to recognize the power of that point of comparison. Now, when I go and do something new, if I'm going to switch out my branding there, you know, go and change my career path or something like that. I know be able to handle it, because I know how I how I act under stress. And I've gotten through so much other stuff. There's no reason why I won't get through this of it, man love it. And so, outside of the India trip, was there a specific adventure for you? Maybe Indy is the favorite adventure, but is is there another trip? I mean, you've done some incredible sailing trips from just what I've seen through photography. Your photography is really, really sweet by the way. Thank you. Yeah, man. It's really cool. But yeah, dude, you're so cool. Is there an adventure that you've done? That's like stands out to be just like one of your one of your favorites. Well, when we did, I sailed aboard. This was back in 2005. When I was a, I was a deckhand on the pride of Baltimore, too, which is 160 foot two masted schooner out of Baltimore, Maryland. And we had sailed it across the Atlantic and spent man spent like three and a half months getting our asses kicked by the North and Baltic seas. We sailed all over. Scandinavia, right? All these different countries, UK, Ireland, Germany, Kiel, like Amsterdam, like everywhere all over and then we were Finally ready, finally ready to go into the med and have just a little bit of a break. And about 80 miles off the coast of France, a piece of the rigging up forward and the boat failed. And both masks it caused both masts to crack at Deck level and fall down onto the boat. And we're talking like we're talking these are like 75 foot mast with two, two and a half foot, single trees. So the forces were enormous, it didn't sink the boat, but it completely destroyed the rigging. And we ended up we ended up being able to no one got hurt. Miraculously, we we, like salvaged what we could ended up pulling what we could onto the boat, whatever we could pull onto the boat, we strapped to it motored ourselves into France, it took maybe like 24 hours to get back into France, and then lived in France, for I lived there for maybe three, three and a half months, something like that, as we rebuild the rig from scratch. And it was in this little town called St. Nazaire, that it was super fortunate actually, because that's where they built the Queen Mary to so they had like locks and stuff where we could tie the boat up and actually have the space to work on it. But I would say that was one of my favorite, my favorite things, because we just survived this crazy accident that that was one of the worst tall ship accidents to happen. And, and here we were in France, kind of marooned there, for the most part. And it made you learn French, so you get to learn French, and you get to kind of integrate yourself into local culture that not a lot of people get to see this little faded seaport town. It was just awesome, man. Like I had a great time. And I would say that was that was probably one of my favorite, one of my favorite experiences. And it's interesting, too, that the favorite experience comes after like a quote unquote, you know, catastrophe or something bad happens, right? Like, I see a lot of a lot of guys. They were so hard on ourselves. We're so brutally hard on ourselves. And then like, we have this vision, we've got clarity, and we know what we're working towards. And all of a sudden, we hit a roadblock, something bad happens, something happens in our relationship, something happens in the business. You know, we're feeling super stressed out, and we just sink, dude, like, we hit a roadblock. And we sink and we think oh my gosh, we'll see what what's happening here. But the reality is, is that with every down, there's an op, right? And so for you, you guys had some major damage to the boat. I mean, that's made that's serious damage. And the bright side of that is now you get to there's something good that came out of it. And you're you're actually saying is one of your favorite adventures, but we don't we don't see that in the moment. Right? We just focus on Oh, my God, everything's falling apart. Yeah, it was some perspective really helps to step back and, and just focus on the what good can come out of this? And, and yeah, it was, it was definitely It was a scary time. And don't get me wrong, too. It's not like, it's not like when all of this stuff was going down. And we're motoring into France. And we've, you know, all of us were had no idea what was going to happen. I mean, this. We didn't know if we were going to keep our jobs because we were all working on this boat, like what they were gonna do. Are they gonna fly us home? Like? Yeah, no one knew what was happening. It's not like, at that moment, I'm like, oh, man, this is great. We're gonna go learn French and whatever. It was only, it was only kind of, in the moment, you make the best of the situation. And then in retrospect, you can truly reflect on how, how great and how fortunate and how lucky you were to have that and, and connect the dots. And everything you learned in that situation has now helped you to get here. So you should be grateful for that. Yeah. And so when you're going through those times on your adventures, and you know, what's what's happening internally for you where the boat breaks, the motorcycle breaks down, right? These things are happening your business maybe you're you're kind of hitting a crappy month or two in your business, right? What's happening with your internal self. I mean, how are you getting yourself through these periods of time when, let's just say call it what it is just hitting the fan? Yeah. Well, sometimes, especially with the motorcycle, you you just want to push it down a mountain. Like, like you just had enough but you gets me through it. How do you not lose like, let yourself manifest in a downward spiral and go into this self loathing kind of just fear based, right? And distress and worry, and everything's My life is falling apart, you know? How do you allow yourself to just kind of get get through that struggle, period. And I'm not saying just to make this point clear. The personal development wants you wants people to put a positive spin on everything, right? Like, yeah, it's gotta be, I gotta be positive, gotta be positive. It's like, sometimes it's like, Nah, man, sometimes it just is what it is. But how do you make sure that you at least manage, manage that get through that, rather than just kind of spiraling? Well, something that you learn when you're working on these old motorcycles is, there's this adage, that it's like, whatever's going wrong. Look at it, check the simplest thing that it could be. And if it's not it, then check it again. Right? Like, and it's true, it really is true. Usually, usually, it's the simplest thing, the most straightforward, simplest thing that goes wrong, and you can fix it, right. So it's, it's about us a simplification process, when you're, when you're in times of stress, that's a really good way to, I think approach any of life's problems is that if you look at it in its entirety, like for instance, man, the bike would break down. And you immediately go into a man, the electronics and something's wrong, and then the ignition boards messed up, that could be it. And then it's not getting like the, you know, the ignition coils are not firing correctly and right, you just, you tend to blow that shit up in your mind. But at the end of the day, you have to have enough discipline to just look at the simplest thing that it could possibly be to push all that other stuff aside, simplify it, check that out first, because nine times out of 10, that's the problem and none of that other. Other other crap that you were stewing around in your brain was real. So that would be my advice. Like, if it feels like it's just getting too overwhelming, simplify it to, to its essence, to to one thing that you can resolve. That might not solve the entire problem. But it will start to give you a little bit of momentum to move, move forward and get yourself out of it and feel like you have a little semblance of control. I think that's really what it comes down to, as far as fear goes, is that it can be really overwhelming when you feel like you're completely out of control. Nothing, nothing that you do will make a difference. And you need to prove to yourself that that's not the case at all that you can that you can actually do little things to improve the situation. So, so yeah, that's a that's what gets me is the simplification process. Brilliant. so powerful. And the best things in life are simple. Always. It's a theme that keeps popping up in my life for the last couple months, man, I'll tell you straight up, like, you know, things that are simple work. I think Nassim Taleb, I'm not sure if you read a Nina seem to lab but you know, I think you'd find some synchronicity there. He's in a physics math, right logic stuff. And, you know, he just says complicated systems fail, they invariably fail. When things are complicated. There's too many moving parts. And there's too many, I mean, just look at our financial system. Right? So that's one example. But things that are gonna go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, no, no, you're right. Like, like, and I feel like it gets complicated, because we tried to make it real robust. You know, like, there's all these corner cases that you try to, you try to build in to be able to adapt, and, and make sure that everything's taken care of. And that's when it starts to really fail, like, because some of the, you know, some of the things that you build, or some of the, you know, the systems, the processes end up working against one another, you know, when it's when you when you make it super robust like that. There's definitely like a diminishing return. So, brilliant. I agree. Yeah, keep it dead, dead simple, and it'll force you to prioritize what's important, right? So if you if you really do need to keep it simple, you obviously can't, can't be doing a lot of stuff simultaneously, if you're keeping with the simple motif. So you need to, you need to be able to figure out like to pick out what's important to you and build around that as simple as possible, and the simpler it is, the easier to work, but then the easier you'll be able to fix it. And when it breaks inevitably, because problems will exist until the day we die. Yeah, yeah, this probably the last three minutes of this interview is the most, I would say the most important. And you should anyone listening should go back and re listen to that until it makes crystal clear sense in your brain. Because I really think what you just said is some seriously seriously powerful wisdom. Humans have a tendency to overcomplicate everything, right. And we think that comp complexity means like intelligence in a way, and it doesn't like nature. Nature always goes by the means of the most simple, right, like the way that energy travels in nature. I think, Josh, I mean, you're in physics, you could enlighten me way more on this. But energy, nature will allow energy to move in the simplest means possible of achieving its goal, right. So like, when water flows downhill, it doesn't try to go through the rock, it goes around the rock. And so why should humans be any different as we're a part of nature? I mean, we should be go always going for the means that is most simple. And in the process, eliminating unnecessary suffering. Yeah, yeah. Agreed. It's, it's like, I think the reason people tend to, to make it a little bit more complex than it should be, is because I, I think it makes them feel like they're gaining a little bit more of an edge. Right? If it's, if it's more complex, like that's the way that they need to gain an edge over say, the competition or to differentiate themselves or whatever, when, when in reality, it's, it's the persistence, that's way harder, right? Like you do something consistently, but simple, it ends up being harder for people to keep that consistency than it is to, you know, to, to just have this like shotgun of, of complex ideas and try and execute them all really quickly. Right? Of course, there end up, it's gonna, it's probably going to fail in the long run. But it's, it's not gonna make you feel any better. You know, when it when it fails, you're, you're just going to be starting over from scratch again, wondering and scratching your head, which of the 5 billion little complex things that I had in my solution was the one that caused it to fail, you'll never know. And so it just seems pointless. And you get disheartened. I would say, I would say to anybody, I challenge you, like, take the simplest thing, do it consistently for a year. Right? And, and see what kind of amazing results you're going to get, you're going to be ahead of everybody, because people just bad people just can't. They can't be consistently, it's like they get tired, you know, they feel like they're missing something. FOMO is real, you know? Yes. Like, yeah, I think and it's, well, it's like goes back to what you were talking about earlier with, like, you know, Yami I'm glad I wasn't in all these Facebook groups and whatever. Because, you know, it's, you know, even for even for Scott Nye, you know, we're in this the, you know, the coaching niche. It's like, dude, I get, like, all these invites, and all these coaching groups. And I'm just like, Yeah, man, and then I just completely turn off all the notifications and whatever, because there's so much noise, like there is so much noise in the world and to be successful in this day and age, in my opinion, it's more about what you don't pay attention to them what you pay attention to, you should be, you should be eliminating in my opinion. I mean, I for one, don't ever turn on the news, but like, you should be eliminating almost all noise. And so you can focus on that one singular thing. And Greg McEwen talks about this in the book essentialism. I freakin love that book. But it's a great book. Yeah, I've read that too. Yeah, it's it's a such a good book. And it's just philosophy at the end of the day, right? I mean, keeping it simple. And focusing on that one thing. This is like, Josh, you're on fire now. But like, the challenge to a listener today is go think about one thing that you can focus on and just do that for a year. And if you can eliminate all the distractions, or all the things that pop up along the journey, like shiny object syndrome, you will you will seriously seriously crush it. So yeah, man. Yeah, dude, I totally there's a real quick like, just to go off of that. There's a story that I heard a couple of years ago. You know, he talked about these, like, massive masterminds and stuff, you know, like we're talking $100,000 to be part of these masterminds per year, you know, being big people. And, and I can't remember which guy was holding the mastermind, but he had this spread of folks that were in there and every like, quarter, maybe they met in person. And there was this one dude in there. That was pretty quiet and like, he would show up, and the mastermind itself would last The weekend. So Friday, Saturday, Sunday, he would show up, he would listen to the first day and take a page worth of notes, and then just leave. No one saw him again. He didn't attend Saturday and Sunday. Right? And he did this all year. And, and at the end of the year, they have this recap where everybody gets up there. And they say, hey, how did you apply what you've learned? Like, how much did your business grow, etc. And everybody's trying to outdo one another? Well, so everybody comes up, and they give their numbers and it was clapping, whatever. Well, the the guy that was running the mastermind, he says, I've saved this guy for last, because as much as you guys have improved, he has improved, like, a combined total of all of you. Right? So So way more like off the charts more exponentially more. And I would like to have him come up here and tell him tell you guys how we did it. So he comes up. And they're like, everybody's blown away, because they're like, Man, you didn't even stay for for two thirds of each mastermind. How the fuck did you do this? And he said, All I did, I finally figured out that I can take a page of notes. That's as much as I can execute in a quarter, right. And then I had my team, I would fly my team in to the hotel room where the mastermind was, and they'd be ready, I would take my notes, I would go back to the room, my team and I would figure out how we were going to apply all this stuff, we would put things into place. And by Sunday, they were running. And then we just waited until you know, we executed them until the next mastermind, I got new fresh ideas. And we did the same thing. Well, that's how it was the execution. It wasn't the ideas, but the execution of the ideas that really made the difference. And and it didn't you don't you don't need like, three days of notes, right. Simplify one page. That's what you do you focus on that you move on. So anyway, yeah, no, I mean, I'm Dude, I'm, I'm in the learner seat. And I'm just I'm just thinking about my for myself. And Scott, you know, I'm hearing everything you're saying. And I think it's, it's, it's actually potentially life changing advice for anyone that's listening to this right now. And in the spirit of an excellent interview and time. Josh, I'll ask you one final question. It's been, it's this has been so great. And I hope you've enjoyed it. Yeah. Amen. Final question is, you know, if you could, like, if you could really just put a message out to people, I mean, really think about it, as, you know, the last words that you could really, maybe you're on your deathbed, or something like that, right? And someone's saying, Josh, you know, what, what should I not? What should I do with my life? But you know, what have you learned man? Like, what's the most important thing that you feel like you've learned? And there's never ever one thing, but what would you kind of part with? Man? Well, it would it would be some iteration of, of that thing I mentioned earlier about the work teaching you the work. I mean, I feel like, I feel like in order to really contribute, and stay fulfilled, not just like, temporarily get fulfillment, but actually stay fulfilled. And don't get me wrong, I'm working on this too. But I have found that to stay fulfilled, you really do need to, to not listen to that fear that you feel, and simply go out there and act and recognize that you are capable of figuring it out along the way. And it's, it's honestly, it's, I'm sure that people have heard that before, and all kinds of different ways. But the truth is, is that most people don't do it, because they feel like there's something It can't be that simple, but it actually really is like, so I would say that, you know, the work teaches you the work. Don't expect that you're going to know everything at the very beginning. Just go out there, start doing it. And you'll learn what you need to learn. And you'll be amazed at how fast you'll progress and how many people will come into your life that that can help or that you can help. And yeah, you'll start to you'll start to be taking some big steps, you know, yeah, so the work teaches you the work, man. It's just the theme that I feel like all all great teachers have said like, I mean, I just think it's so many people off the top of my head that have done, you know, really great, great things right. I mean, Tim, Tim Ferriss is something that comes to my mind right away and you know, it's just, you know, Seneca right great, just philosopher like these people. Talk about Simplifying systems that seem to live Have you ever been reading the seem to love Josh at all? No, I've never even heard of him. I think I think you'd love a we'll talk after but essentially, you know, good books anti fragile by him skin in the game. And he talks about this like simplified systems. And just maybe it's just people that I looked up to in general, but if you can keep it simple things will things will take off exponentially for you. So, Josh, killer interview, I would you know, I could talk to you for hours about just some of the wisdom and adventures that you've had. Man, it's been a, it's been super epic, just having me on. I appreciate you coming on this dude. And I know that for sure. There's gonna be guys that listen to this, they get tremendous benefit out of this dude, so much, man. Totally, man, it's my pleasure. And you can always like if they want to reach out, shoot me an email or find me. It's just Josh corporal calm. Yeah. So simplest way to do it. And this has been great, man. This has absolutely been great. Great interview. And and thanks for the opportunity. So yeah, and Dude, I mean, really, before we go, I mean, this last piece of software that you're working on, because there are some coaches in our space, we have even coaches that are in our transformation program, and you want to just quickly highlight this new software that you're building with fire builders, it's it's actually something that doesn't really exist in the marketplace. So do you would you like to highlight that at all? Well, yeah, I mean, like, if they go to fire builders.io, they'll be able to read a little bit about it. But, but everything that we have talked about on this interview, about simplification. It's not just a problem for people that are trying to build businesses. I mean, it's a problem for everybody. And, and so what fire builders does is it, it helps coaches help their people simplify things into a single focus, and do it on a consistent basis in a very personalized way. So, so yeah, so I originally built the whole thing for my mom, that's how the things started. And then it kept her accountable for writing because she's an author. And then the whole thing grew. And then you're able to white label it and, and now coaches use it when they want to keep all of their people accountable, right, focused off of social media away from distractions, but do it such that the coaches material stays Top of Mind all of the time. And for the coach, you know, it just like it's great, because it all runs automatically. So it's not like they have to do anything, it just, it just it's incredibly engaging. So fire builders.io it's, it's awesome, man. It really is something super cool. If you're a coach and you're listening to this, and you're like curious, you should I definitely recommend reaching out to Josh, because if there's any indication from this interview, you're a top quality guy, man, so thank you. Yeah, dude. So thank you so much for coming on. This has been killer dude, and really enjoyed it. Yeah, Xavier, thank you.